I'm sick of this crap (swirls)

S

schoi

New member
First off, to the people that have silver cars or any other... "understated" color: can you even see swirls and stuff on your paint? How hard / easy to see them, if you can at all?



And to my rant. I'm fu*@ing sick of swirls. I just finished doing my 'Bring, and sure enough, swirls. Lots of them. Is it because of the way I wash or dry? Maybe. Even after my last SMR, I could still see quite a few (I don't have a PC), and I'm sick of this crap.



So, instead of doing the Klasse twins like I've been doing, I'm thinking I'm gonna start using glaze + wax (or a sealant that can go over glaze, if any...?) I need some suggestions.



What's a good glaze to hide this crap? Something I can use to hide that stuff... I mean, I have AIO and SG on there now, and I'd need something to strip it off. So, what I'm really asking is this:



What's the best way to strip off Klasse? After that, what is the best glaze (your opinions, of course) to use to hide swirls? What sealants, if any, can be used to top that glaze? (This will all be covered by P21S.)



Oh, and besides that, I had some amazingly stubborn water marks on my trunk only (which I've never had before), and there seems to be a little bit of mildew inside my driver's side door. Those aren't really big problems... easily taken care of... but the swirls are. Help. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
For me, SMR is a REALLY REALLY tedious process. I had to work in atleast like 4 or 5 thin layers to get rid of just small swirlies I had. (And I didn't get rid of all of them). A majority, yes. I hated doing it, so everytime I even consider touching the car I make sure to use ULTRA-light pressure (washing, klassing..etc).



You just gotta work at it for a looong time.
 
But you have a silver car (sounds like a really nice one, btw). Aren't swirls MUCH harder to see on silver / white / ... ?



And I still need a good glaze =(
 
I fully understand your frustration. I experience the same thing all the time. My car is Carbon Black. No matter how careful I am I create swirls.



I have tried Mf towels, cotton towels, chenell mits, cotton mitts, cotton wash cloths, add infinitum. I'm so scared of creating swirls I refuse to QD the dust off. I won't get near a CD. I could go on and on. My next car WILL be silver.



Until then I am trying something out that shows promising results.



I now have three coats of Z2 on. As I applied it I am certain I created swirls, or "micro marring" as I like to call it. I then topped with PS.

Yesterday, I washed it and more MM's appeared. So I attempted to do the following.



IHG is totally non abrasive and will not strip wax or SG's. It will fill swirls however. So I applied 4 coats on a samll section of the car and topped with PS. I definetly saw an improvement. The mariing is dissapearing. I will look in direct sunlight ASAP. Then I will let you know how it looks.



Untill then DON"T GIVE UP!



Keep asking questions and reading threads. There is a wealth of knowledge and wisdom on this board.



Bruce

:bounce
 
I know it's a great place, man. I was a "lurker" long before I registered. And I'm still going through the archives.



But, I'm glad you understand what I'm saying. It's terrible, isn't it?



I didn't know that IHG was a *glaze only*... it will just sit there? And it can be topped with P21S or another pure wax without smearing around and such? Didn't know that... then again, I've never tried IHG. I gotta try that.



Thanks. I'll have to try that next weekend.



(edit: yep, I'm definitely thinking that my next car will be silver, too...)
 
Polaris said:
I know it's a great place, man. I was a "lurker" long before I registered. And I'm still going through the archives.



But, I'm glad you understand what I'm saying. It's terrible, isn't it?



I didn't know that IHG was a *glaze only*... it will just sit there? And it can be topped with P21S or another pure wax without smearing around and such? Didn't know that... then again, I've never tried IHG. I gotta try that.



Thanks. I'll have to try that next weekend.



(edit: yep, I'm definitely thinking that my next car will be silver, too...)
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IHG can be topped with carnuba, but must be washed before an SG. Z6 will do fine when using an SG.
 
Bruce Peter said:
IHG is totally non abrasive and will not strip wax or SG's.
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I'm pretty sure IHG will strip waxes and sealants alike.



Polaris, I don't know how severe your swirls are, but I've found trying to use SMR by hand to be quite hard and unrewarding. Have you considered stepping up to something stronger like DACP? If the swirls are so bad that they're easily noticable on silver paint and has you hopping mad, I don't think SMR is going to cut it.



I think no matter what you use, glaze or layered sealants like SG, only minor swirls will be hidden. The really small, shallow, and short ones. I glazed over a badly swirled car once and it looked much better, but at the same time you could really tell it wasn't filling the deep to moderate swirls.



On my car, the deeper swirls on my trunk are really only noticable when looking at the sun's reflection. Klasse SG wasn't able to hide these because of their depth. My hood is considerably better using the same trick. Other than looking right at the sun's reflection in some areas, the car appears swirl-free. Silver (and white) really is much better at hiding swirls than any darker colour. You'll notice that a reflection in silver paint doesn't look nearly as "mirror-like" as good black paint.



Like Bruce said, don't give up!
 
4DSC said:
I'm pretty sure IHG will strip waxes and sealants alike.









Like Bruce said, don't give up!
Click to expand...



No, IHG has no abrasives, oils, or silicones. It will sit on top of anything without stripping it. Like you said though, it will fill only minor or "micro" swirls.



GO YANKS!
 
Well, my car's black. Which is why they (the swirls) are so damned terrible.



And I was thinking that IHG would strip waxes / sealants off, too. That's the experience I had with #7, but then again, #7 is claimed to be a "polish and glaze" anyway, so that's a little different.



DACP? Never really considered it. Honestly, I'd rather get a 7424, use my SMR, and be gone with those God forsaken things. Problem is, I don't have a PC. I was hoping that a good glaze would hide the crap and a good layer of wax over that would keep the glaze there.
 
Polaris,

I hear you. My car is a black metallic BMW, which shows EVERYTHING. I have a PC, and have used DACP, 3M SMR, #9, and #7.



Here's my routine:

-DACP with PC and yellow pad

-#9 Swirl Remover with PC and white pad

-#7 Show Car Glaze with white pad, just for good measure

-P21S wax

-Pinnacle Crystal Mist QD with Carnauba



Everyone has somewhat different beliefs, and David B. has recently done a post about the "scale" of aggressiveness, but from what I've seen, IMHO, here's the order in terms of most to least aggressive of some comonly used products:

DACP, then 3M SMR, then #9.



MY $.02 would be to get a PC and try the 3m SMR again with a yellow CMA pad. If that doesn't do it, then you may want to move up the scale to DACP.



If you are set on doing it by hand, PM Scottwax, he's the master of the, eh, hand job. Cough cough.
 
Polaris, try the #7 you already have. It is pretty good at filling swirls. Since you already own it, see if it gives you the results you want. Just make sure to top with something that won't remove it. I think BFII and maybe Zaino are the only polymers that would do this (you could certainly try SG, though). Or just use that P21S you have.
 
jcattarulla said:
If you are set on doing it by hand, PM Scottwax, he's the master of the, eh, hand job. Cough cough.
Click to expand...



lmao ;)



Yeah... that #7 has been sitting there for quite a while, though. But in any case, can BF II and whatnot be applied OVER a glaze like that and still bond?
 
Polaris said:
First off, to the people that have silver cars or any other... "understated" color: can you even see swirls and stuff on your paint? How hard / easy to see them, if you can at all?
Click to expand...



I can see swirls/scratches on the paint in certain lighting only. When it's parked under the sun, it looks absolutely perfect. The only time I can see the swirls is when it's parked in the garage under fluorescent light or if I look really hard. I'm tired of silver though. We have 2 silver cars and I really want a color that that shows more refelctions.
 
4DSC said:
http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12891&highlight=ihg+strip

http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3548&highlight=imperial+hand+glaze

It's the solvents, not anything you listed... :nixweiss
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Wow, nice test! Ok assuming you are correct, how would I know if I stripped the Zaino?



Are Zaino and Klasse so similar that I can assume the same is true?



Is IHG the same as mothers? The 3m site states there are NO silicones or wax and that is is non abrasive.



Do you think the oils are resposible for removing the klasse?



Thanks 4 your input.



Bruce
 
I dunno. I can tell you what I said in my other post, though.



I have Klasse... 1xAIO, 1xSG... on my car. Out of curiousity, I tried #7 on a small spot. It filled in a few small scratches I had (it's nighttime, can't tell on the swirls because I can't see them...), and it also made the paint "squeaky clean." You know, the squeak you get on a completely stripped surface... same sort of thing I hear after SMR. I dunno if IHG is the same, though.
 
My dilema is the continuing addition of micro marring and swirls.



Like I said I as SOOOOOOOO carefull and still I cause em. I was simply hoping that IHG on top would solve the problem,



I have used it after SMR and before Zaino. I have not experience bonding issues. But that is before, not on top.



I did an experiment:

SMR, wash, IHG, 1/2 of the xar Z6 then Z2zfx. after one month the beading on my wifes ride is as good as the straight zaino side.



Bruce
 
Bruce Peter said:
Wow, nice test! Ok assuming you are correct, how would I know if I stripped the Zaino?



Are Zaino and Klasse so similar that I can assume the same is true?



Is IHG the same as mothers? The 3m site states there are NO silicones or wax and that is is non abrasive.



Do you think the oils are resposible for removing the klasse?



Thanks 4 your input.



Bruce
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Zaino I'm not so sure about, but it's not much of a stretch of imagination that it would remove that too. Both Zaino and Klasse are impervious to Dawn, but come off with IPA, and are both in the polymer sealants category.



I'm not sure there's a lot chemically different between a lot of the stuff we use here really. I don't know this for sure (it's mainly from my observations), but a lot of products seem to behave similarly. I mean this for both the glazes and Z and K.



As Ron K and Forrest have said, it's the solvents in glaze which do it. This sounds right to me because I don't think there's a lot of difference between abrasive polishes and glaze except the addition of abrasives. I think some of the 3M MSDS's helped with that but can't remember. A lot of polishes have glaze-like ingredients too (like #9 and DACP), but I guess this doesn't mean much by itself.



I only noticed the Klasse on my hood was gone because I had an imperfect prep job and saw some swirls come back (that the SG hid).



On a completely different note, I'm still curious about the long-term effects of glaze under sealants though. :)
 
4DSC said:






I only noticed the Klasse on my hood was gone because I had an imperfect prep job and saw some swirls come back (that the SG hid).



On a completely different note, I'm still curious about the long-term effects of glaze under sealants though. :)
Click to expand...



I think most wax contains solvents and oils to carry the wax. These supposed "pure carnuba's" almost always have some to soften the otherwise rock hard wax. If that is true (and I'm not sure if it is) the topping poly's with wax would also strip them.





I have seen no difference in my wifes car. The 1/2 with IHG under the Z is holding up equally well after one month of horrible weather. I'm watching it pretty closely and will share my observations.

Sort of an unscientific, show me test.
 
Bruce Peter said:
I think most wax contains solvents and oils to carry the wax. These supposed "pure carnuba's" almost always have some to soften the otherwise rock hard wax. If that is true (and I'm not sure if it is) the topping poly's with wax would also strip them.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I also noticed that. They're usually different solvents in those waxes though. I think it's heavy napthalated petroleum or something. It must be too thick and heavy (or something) to do any harm because people have been topping sealants for a while now, and I'm fairly certain I've read a few threads that showed the sealant was still under there months later. Hopefully I'll see for myself this spring. :)



PS: I've decided to set a policy of not making my first wax topper layer something like #26 liquid - just in case. ;)
 
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