I want to be corrected, so come on in!

I

imported_Nimble

New member
Sure I'm a noobie here, and sure I don't have the experience comparing products like you guys do, but I can't help but notice that most of you guys prefer waxes over sealents.



From really researching different product lines, I get the feeling that the "top" brands seem to focus more towards waxes than sealents (not counting Klasse and Zaino of course). I also get the feeling that a company like PB's has put out sealent products simply for profit and trying to keep up with the other companies doing the same thing (not that there is anything wrong with that). Most of PB's line is based off of Carnauba products and the sealents don't seem to "fit in" as well in their line up.



I guess what I'm getting at is we all love technology, shoot that's how we have EIGHT speed autos on the market now. But, do we really need 8 speeds? (I hope you see what I'm getting at).



From what I gather....



-wax "looks" better than sealents

-wax is easier to remove than sealents

-wax leaves a slicker surface than sealents

-wax is more durable for bird bombs, bugs, salt, etc (note I'm not talking about time here)



So, other than the 6 month protection, what benefits do sealents provide? (not forgetting that having 46 coats of Zaino on your 350Z makes you Zaino sticker worthy on your ride)



The above are just my random thoughts on the subject, I like a little debate, so drop some knowledge on me. :secret
 
1. Appearance is subject. Personally, when it comes to looks, I prefer (mostly) sealants on lighter colored vehicles and metallics, and carnaubas on solid dark colors.



2. Depends on the wax and depends on the sealant.



3. Again, depends on the wax and the sealant. Overall though, sealants tend to have more pure slickness, carnaubas usually have a very smooth feel.



4. I'd agree that waxes offer a better barrier against bird bombs, etc, but you have to reapply them more often.



What benefits do sealants provide? For many people, they like the look of a sealant and the lower maintenance they offer. Werkstatt, for example, is very durable and has a great look. Poorboy's Sealants (EX-P and EX w/carnauba) are very sun friendly and go on and off easily even on the hottest days. Carnaubas can be tough in the full sun on moderately warm days.



Whether or not a sealant or carnauba is best for you depends on what you want out of your LSP.
 
Scottwax said:
1. Appearance is subject. Personally, when it comes to looks, I prefer (mostly) sealants on lighter colored vehicles and metallics, and carnaubas on solid dark colors.



2. Depends on the wax and depends on the sealant.



3. Again, depends on the wax and the sealant. Overall though, sealants tend to have more pure slickness, carnaubas usually have a very smooth feel.



4. I'd agree that waxes offer a better barrier against bird bombs, etc, but you have to reapply them more often.



What benefits do sealants provide? For many people, they like the look of a sealant and the lower maintenance they offer. Werkstatt, for example, is very durable and has a great look. Poorboy's Sealants (EX-P and EX w/carnauba) are very sun friendly and go on and off easily even on the hottest days. Carnaubas can be tough in the full sun on moderately warm days.



Whether or not a sealant or carnauba is best for you depends on what you want out of your LSP.
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Good answer. Anybody else with input?
 
-wax is easier to remove than sealents
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I'm no detailing expert, but usually it's much easier to remove sealants than wax. OK, so some of the highest end wax is actually easy to remove, but with every sealant I've used, it's wipe on, wait, wipe off. You don't have to work it in, it buffs out easy. So I actually consider this a benefit of sealants: they are easier to remove than wax.



As far as surface slickness, if my surface slickness stays level for 4 months, I am happy, even though the 1st month or two, it's not as slick as the 'nuba.



You can't have this discussion by saying, "well, aside from the durability"--the durability is often essential. When helping my friends detail their cars, I feel much better applying, say, Meguiar's #21 or Zaino, because I know that it will last them much longer and protect their car much longer. They won't be detailing their cars every couple of months.



Sure, I enjoy detailing and I probably can wax my car every month or every two months (and I sometimes have), but sometime life gets really busy and I can't even get a wash in for 3 weeks, forget a rewaxing. So I appreciate the durability as well, despite having the ability to wax more often.
 
Obviously, this is my opinion:

-wax "looks" better than sealents. As said, subjective.

-wax is easier to remove than sealents. *Find me one that fits that bill vs a quality sealant.

-wax leaves a slicker surface than sealents. See asterik above

-wax is more durable for bird bombs, bugs, salt, etc (note I'm not talking about time here) Case in point: Ive had a bird bomb on the roof of my truck for about 6 weeks. It was out of visual range (Hey im only 5'8" on a real hot day). I protect my truck with either Four Star UPP or Duragloss #111. What appeared to have been etched with a light QD cleaning, was easily removed with just a paint cleaner. Was it protected? Absolutely.

In summary, I don't recall the last time I used a Nuba when protecting a car, other then a quick cleaning with something like Protectall or Optimum car wax after a wash. But my base coat is always a sealant. Be it a clients car or personal car/truck/SUV. Sealants meet every aspect of my expectations, i just dont think a Nuba can do that for me.....

Scott summed it up rather well,

Whether or not a sealant or carnauba is best for you depends on what you want out of your LSP.
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Nimble said:
-wax "looks" better than sealents

-wax is easier to remove than sealents

-wax leaves a slicker surface than sealents

-wax is more durable for bird bombs, bugs, salt, etc (note I'm not talking about time here)



So, other than the 6 month protection, what benefits do sealents provide?
Click to expand...



Longer-winded version of ScottWax's response follows:



1) Beyond the subjectivity of the whole thing, some sealants look a lot like waxes (e.g., BlackFire and UPP) and others look very *different* from waxes (e.g., Zaino), a difference that some people like. Some people say they really "see how the paint truly looks" better with a sealant, that waxes obscure things a bit too much for their taste.



FWIW, I *like* how UPP looks on my S8, it's sure not worse looking (to me) than the waxes I use on my wife's (identical paint) A8. Different look though, so some might have a different preference. OTOH, I prefer waxes on certain paints and I can be quite opinionated about which wax for which paint.



So IMO you gotta match the LSP to the paint, in accordance with what the person who matters wants to see.



2) I don't really find there to be any big difference, unless you do something weird/wrong (usually apply too thick). People claim that #16 and even Souveran can be a PIA to buff off if you let them set up too long, but that hasn't been my experience.



3) Slickest product I've used is the UPP, and that's one big reason why I use it. But I do associate the "self-cleaning" effect more with waxes than with sealants.



4) Generally I agree, though I've never found multiple layers of KSG to be lacking in resistance to environmental stuff like that.



So, some sealants provide extreme slickness and/or a certain look that some people will prefer. And some people will prefer the way certain sealants (supposedly) tend to sheet rather than bead. And yeah, some people like the long-term durability and not having to reapply for many months at a time, and by long-term I mean a *lot* longer than six months.



FWIW, I use waxes a lot more than I use sealants and I generally consider myself somebody who prefers the carnauba-based approach.
 
I guess what I 'might' be getting at is my brain (as small as it is hehe) likes to compute things on a finite level...meaning I like things simple, and easy. I am 'thinking' of starting some sort of detailing business and feel that a wax LSP would be best for me.



I just wish this whole detailing product thing wasn't sooo complicated. You know, 10 products that you can 'always' count on to do a great job. That kind of thing. Sigh, well, maybe I'll have to be like you pros and have a million different products that all claim to do the same thing.
 
Nimble said:
I just wish this whole detailing product thing wasn't sooo complicated. You know, 10 products that you can 'always' count on to do a great job. That kind of thing. Sigh, well, maybe I'll have to be like you pros and have a million different products that all claim to do the same thing.
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I don't subscribe to the notion of "product of the week/month etc." I don't think it's too much to expect to find "10 products that always do a great job". I think it's more getting to know how to use each product to it's best, rather than jumping from product to product expecting to find the "holy grail"! As others have noted it's the "process" that's usually more important than any specific product. IMHO. ;)
 
Nimble said:
From what I gather....



1-wax "looks" better than sealents

2-wax is easier to remove than sealents

3-wax leaves a slicker surface than sealents

4-wax is more durable for bird bombs, bugs, salt, etc (note I'm not talking about time here)
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1 - Depends on you pre-LSP'd finish. LSP don't count for producing much of a noticable shine on a properly prepped finish.

2 - I use some really good paint sealants that remove easier than alot of waxes. I think sealants are thinner in nature for me. Waxes are oily in nature and are prone to smears which can cause more work.

3 - If I clay and buff a surface, both *help* make the surface feel like butter. Waxes might feel thicker on the finish.

4 - I'm under the impression that sealants provide you with better protection than waxes against enviromental contaminants. Atleast that's how it pans out for me.
 
1-wax "looks" better than sealents

2-wax is easier to remove than sealents

3-wax leaves a slicker surface than sealents

4-wax is more durable for bird bombs, bugs, salt, etc (note I'm not talking about time here)



1. As said, subjective and the lightness/darkness of the paint could determine that.

2. Untrue in my opinion. Poor Boy's and Wolfgang come to mind.

3. Perhaps initially but many sealants, after cure time, are teflon slick.....not indicating teflon is in the sealant......just an expression.

4. Unproven to me but even if so it will be for a considerably shorter time period.
 
Nimble said:
...I just wish this whole detailing product thing wasn't sooo complicated. You know, 10 products that you can 'always' count on to do a great job. That kind of thing. Sigh, well, maybe I'll have to be like you pros and have a million different products that all claim to do the same thing.
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Most people here do settle down to the handful of products they find work for them. Sure, many people like to experiment around and try new things but by and large most have a set of reliable products they fall back on.



It’s just that we have so many people, each with their own set of favorites, talking as a big group that it all adds up to a whole bunch.





PC.
 
So, I have to ask then, what is your favorite "line" of products for all in one producing the best overall end result over all types of finishes? So far, I have PB's and they seem good, also a lot of you seem to like Optimum. What are your fav sealents?
 
In a way, I think of wax vs sealants kind of like analog versus digital amps ....the 'engineered' version is superior in many respects, however the 'organic' version can have a 'warmth' to it that the engineered version lacks.



However each generation more closely mimics these warmth attributes while maintaining the engineered advantages..



I think before you can get some good recommendations, you should answer a few questions:



What color (s) are the vehicles?

How important is:

durability?

price?

looks?

online shopping or retail?



and even then, you'll get a dozen answers LOL
 
Nimble said:
So, I have to ask then, what is your favorite "line" of products for all in one producing the best overall end result over all types of finishes? So far, I have PB's and they seem good, also a lot of you seem to like Optimum. What are your fav sealents?
Click to expand...



I mostly use Optimum and Meguairs for polishing. Usually I use Optimum but for single stage, I tend to use Meguiars. Also, for some reason, Meguiars works amazingly well on BMW's paints. Menzerna is also really good and has the best clarity...but that isn't always what I look for a solid colors as the extra 5% clarity makes solid colors look a little too reflective and you kind of lose the color a bit. That is just a personal thing.



I use Werkstatt's products for my sealant option. I go with Poorboy's when the sun is unavoidable.
 
sspeer said:
In a way, I think of wax vs sealants kind of like analog versus digital amps ....the 'engineered' version is superior in many respects, however the 'organic' version can have a 'warmth' to it that the engineered version lacks.
Click to expand...



Same arguement when CDs first came out and were compared to LPs.



I know a few people who absolutely swear by tube amplifiers. And after listening to some, they have a point. :)
 
sspeer said:
In a way, I think of wax vs sealants kind of like analog versus digital amps ....the 'engineered' version is superior in many respects, however the 'organic' version can have a 'warmth' to it that the engineered version lacks.



However each generation more closely mimics these warmth attributes while maintaining the engineered advantages..



I think before you can get some good recommendations, you should answer a few questions:



What color (s) are the vehicles?

How important is:

durability?

price?

looks?

online shopping or retail?



and even then, you'll get a dozen answers LOL
Click to expand...



I like that analogy, makes a lot of sense in this arena too.



Well, you see, I'm going to be like most of you...detailing pretty much what's given to me. I 'assume' that 'most' customers here in the ritzy, Chicago suburbs will 'understand' a wax better and thus want that. I will, however, have at least the top dog sealents on hand and explain that option for winter time, and/or someone that does want that extended durability.



As far as the others, the price is only marginally important, I mean, not top line Pinnacle or Zymol, but $25 wax is fine.



My whole 'thing' with the look is that while maybe you, and def Scottwax (hehe) have the ability to se those fine differences, there's no way "Joe customer" will be able to. I sometimes get the feeling that you top car detailers are working more for 'your' level vs. your customers. However, I have read where some of you knowingly 'overdetail' your customer's cars when they would have been happy with any LSP so long as the scratches are out. :p
 
Scottwax said:
I mostly use Optimum and Meguairs for polishing. Usually I use Optimum but for single stage, I tend to use Meguiars. Also, for some reason, Meguiars works amazingly well on BMW's paints. Menzerna is also really good and has the best clarity...but that isn't always what I look for a solid colors as the extra 5% clarity makes solid colors look a little too reflective and you kind of lose the color a bit. That is just a personal thing.



I use Werkstatt's products for my sealant option. I go with Poorboy's when the sun is unavoidable.
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So "if" you were to start a basic detailing business, where you do 1-2 full details a week, and the rest washes, and wash/waxes, would the following "get you by?" (Assuming I have 'any' talent hehe).



Optimum

-No Rinse Wash

-Compound

-Polish

-Poli-Seal

-Possibly their spray wax, or is Duragloss's AW better?



Menzerna

-Intensive Polish

-Final Polish 2

-Don't they have some sort of Acrylic/Sealent too?



Poor Boys

-SSR 2.5

-SSR 1

-Polish with Carnauba

-Natty's Blue

-Quick Wax Plus

-In the sun, the only option for PB's is the EX sealents right? I couldn't use NB here?
 
DieselMDX said:
Scott lol you should strart charging for advice you could do a car less a week!



Nimble u r in good hands buddy
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Nimble said:
I agree, he and Accumulator are seriously helpful around here.
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"Karma" boys, karma! :D



Oh, and BTW Scott, I've never heard a CD-based system that sounds as good as a REALLY good turntable (LP)-based system! :2thumbs:
 
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