final questions about klasse aio and sg

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Burlyq said:
Bad rep?



http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46838



Try attacking a product instead of a person if you feel like disagreeing. When you stoop to personal attacks it's because you know I'm right. My condensention of you was after you all chewed me, I'm just someone who loves to detail cars and I do a real good job.



If they were attacking you personally they'd pick on your grammer. You came in here and started making personal attacks. 3 months of school doesn't begin to compare some of the folks on here that have 10+ years of full time detailing.
 
That is just my edu, I've been detailing off and on 19 yrs ok? Have a coke and a smile. Heres an example of what a non petro product says about itself, via manu.

Other Menzerna advantages include:

Safe for use on factory cured paint and brand new paint.

Excellent for one stage and base coat-clear coat finishes.

Can be used on lacquer and acrylic paints

No petroleum solvent is being introduced back in to the paint.

Minimum dusting.

One-step, rapid, swirl, line and defect removal with minimal or no surface haze on light color paints.

Minimal follow-up polishing required on dark color paints.

Swirls and defects are removed, not just covered-up.

Can be applied by hand, orbital, dual-action or circular polishers.

What does you experience say about that mtoodle, try to stick to the polish question if possible?
 
Burlyq said:
Real funny how people keep asking why fool companies put contaminants in polish, the answer is I don't know I didn't do it. Probably the same way co's put free silicones in some polishes like Auri Gold. Does any of you genuises doubt that petroleum distilates are paint contaminats? They probably don't use a lot but for those of you that doubt it, put a pint of oil or gas on your hood and let it bake in, those are two other products with petroleum distilates. Not only are they contaminants but they also attract dust which makes the situation worse.




I hate to be the one to burst your bubble, but Zaino contains petroleum distilliates also. If you don't believe this, call Sal and he will tell you the same thing.



Acrylics like Klasse are water based, so the petroleum distilliates in Klasse do not remain suspended in the product. After everything cures all your left with is acrylic.



Saying Zaino is better than Klasse or vice versa is like saying an apple is better than an orange.
 
Menzerna doesn't contain them and I'm not sure your right about Zaino. Law states you have to label your product if it contains PD's and Zaino aint labeled. Check any product like poorboys, klasse, armorall tire, etc, they all say they contain PD's. Zaino surely doesn't attract dust like petroleum products either. And PD's dont evaporate or become denatured so I'm not sure what you meant about the suspesion thing. It's a minor issue to me just one particular reason I think Menzerna and Zaino type products are better than Klasse. Lets call it personal choice.
 
Does any of you genuises doubt that petroleum distilates are paint contaminats? They probably don't use a lot but for those of you that doubt it, put a pint of oil or gas on your hood and let it bake in, those are two other products with petroleum distilates.



there are more than 1 type of pd's...but im sure you already know that, so what about the ones that are used in the paint itself?
 
The issue is the minor differences between polishes and well you know where my preferences are. It's a minor thing what most polishes contain, the small reactions they have with paint are nothing compared to the damage they prevent. PD's or not I think klasse discolors somewhat and attracts dust more than M and Z. It's been fun chatting peace guys.
 
I never have seen a discoloration from using klasse. Other than on black and *I* think it is due to the reflective nature it gives off not so much that it is yellow, it is ever so slight and I dont think anyone off the street would notice it. Do you notice this yellowing after a long period of time or does it look this way right after applying :nixweiss

I have never seen this and I guess I am curious as to what you are seeing. Do you have any pics I can see? Im not trying to discredit you or anything I just want to know.
 
Burlyq said:
Real funny how people keep asking why fool companies put contaminants in polish, the answer is I don't know I didn't do it. Probably the same way co's put free silicones in some polishes like Auri Gold. Does any of you genuises doubt that petroleum distilates are paint contaminats? They probably don't use a lot but for those of you that doubt it, put a pint of oil or gas on your hood and let it bake in, those are two other products with petroleum distilates. Not only are they contaminants but they also attract dust which makes the situation worse. Even though all these factors exist with klasse i still use it, when certain customers ask for it, I'd just rather use menzerna, ts clear, and three or 4 others. Lol at dude who said greying, that's funny. It's yellowing bud and because of the background it shows grey, thanks for proving my point. Did Zaino ever grey on you, tell the truth? Them saying Zaino should be 3 coats in 24 is a suggestion! Just like Sal saying don't put a finishing wax, it's a suggestion. However, I use finishing wax all the time, think out of the box you guys. As for why do they put petro in waxes heres my comment, all of those attract dust right? The other point is that oil (petro) makes a deep shine, that's the main reason they put it in the polish. Companies want your shine to look good and protect against tar and spots, that is what most customers want, those companies don't care if they damage your paint slowly and slightly with their product if thats what they have to do to make it LOOK GOOD. Using petro distilates is the cheap and lazy way to do it and it is old and popular technology, many companies use alternatives but they cost more and require substancial r&d. My best evidence is your own comments. All you work in a klasse plant or what? I don't care if you all like that product anyway that's cool, just don't deny the objective data, it makes you look foolish. I'm sure you'll chew me again but admit I have a point and move on.

Hey Burly, I've got a tip for you. It's called the paragraph. Paragraphs are your friend.
 
Let's just ignore these responses. We have had too many of these "my product is better than yours because...." conversations that normally are supported by weak data or personal biases.



Everyone here knows I use, love, and stand by the virtues of Zaino, so this isn't about Zaino being a wonderful product. The sad part is that even Sal dislikes the way his product is hyped by some users. That is where my statement about "the bad rap stems from".



Burlyq, no personal attacks here. Just direct rebuff of your unjustifiable statements and mis-representation of Zaino. Yes, you are "out-of-box" when it comes to your thought processes, reasoning and justifications to prove your skewed observations.



I must end now and run out to my garage and check on 2 of my classics. They both have original paint ( '67 (RS-SS and Chevelle 396). I have only used petro-filled paste wax on them for 27 years. My Gawd the paint must be ruined!! :shocked
 
manawar said:
ok well i am pretty conviced with this one two punch make it 3 (souveran) but i have a couple more questions. it will be on a brand new 05 bmw m3 and i want the super deep wet look. it wont have any swirls or anything as i requested so i am going to go straight for the wash then the clay and then wash again. i am going to set a layer of klasse aio down but with what? its brand new so i dont need anything aggresive. hand or pc with sonus black or polishing pad on low speed? once i put one layer of aio i will go to a sealant but ive heard good and bad about sg. should i use the sg or a 1z line or perhaps zaino? ease of use doesnt matter i just want the best look. i will do these by hand and wait for them to cure. well thats it for my questions and any other helpful tips would be nice as i havent used klasse before. and after that i will be topping with the none other :) pinnacle souveran.

thanks.



I have just started using the Klasse twins on my Steel Gray BMW. The application went smoothly. I first did Sonus Clay(got some marring), then one coat of AIO, followed by 3 coats of SG. The only part I did not like about the process is the waiting between coats. Also, I noticed, the longed I waited between coats(1 week for the 3rd), the more difficult the SG was to remove. This is where I cannot stress enough, that if you don't think you are putting enough SG on, you are putting the correct amount. I have not topped it with carnuba yet, but the durability is like the fist day it was applied over a month ago. It did not look wet after SG, but more like sqeaky clean.



18990photos_365.jpg




Good luck
 
Burlyq said:
It's a minor issue to me just one particular reason I think Menzerna and Zaino type products are better than Klasse. Lets call it personal choice.



You are pushing your statements as facts without evidence rather than just a "personal choice."



You sure put up a big fight for things that you consider "a minor issue."



Anyway, do you have pictures of this yellowing effect you're talking about? Side by side pictures with zaino, perhaps?
 
Burlyq said:
Bad rep?



http://autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46838



Try attacking a product instead of a person if you feel like dissagreeing. When you stoop to personal attacks it's because you know I'm right. My condensention of you was after you all chewed me, I'm just someone who loves to detail cars and I do a real good job.





I don't get it. What does the thread have to do with what you're trying to prove?



Just because Zaino made the shine better, doesn't make it Superman in the world of sealants. Use what you like and state why you like it with your experiences with it and experiences with other products. If people can't accept that there are different conditions and different methods employed by different people than I just don't know how they function outside of detailing.



And if you do state you like Zaino be prepared to get flamed because this board loves to flame people for merely liking it. At least if you say why and how and what and when you like it then they can't argue with you because they have no grounds to say "Well, I really think that you didn't like it but you're just making that all up" :nixweiss
 
Hey guys you still chamin in here? I think some of you klasse loyalists said yourself that there have been some discoloring, but no I have no pics it's been a while since I followed the car after a detail, by the time I get it back there's usually no protection left. I think it could be minor discoloring from junk gathering over time or putting second/third coats of sg w/o cleaning thouroughly? Did you guys who seen coloring see it right after or over weeks? The product doesn't discolor the paint so there are no permanant color issues. Like I said I still use klasse when requested, if fact I have a grey infiniti on the books who wants klasse so I'm doing it next weekend. I hate keeping cars overnight, I usally work all freaking night. I'd rather hit it with three coats Zaino and tell the lady to pick it up at 4. I never had any color issues with Z or M at all.

Very nice pics. Hey alan check the para here.
 
Hey burleyq,

You picthed the same argument for GLARE over at DC that you are pitching here for ZAINO.

Why did you abandon GLARE?
 
I never said that Glare was better than Zaino. I never said Glare was better than Klasse. I haven't abanded anything, I simply use what customer wants and I use more that 20 polishes, sealants, wax's and yes Glare is one of them. Check dudes question about detail kings products in other post if you care. This site and dc have a lot ties and relationships with klasse products so I figured I would take grief for having an opinion that differs. I have never seen any detailing forum that didn't have ties that was more pro klasse than pro Zaino, have you? Klasse has a wetter shine and if they had an instant cure I would use it more often, despite my minor pevs!
 
Burlyq said:
This site and dc have a lot ties and relationships with klasse products so I figured I would take grief for having an opinion that differs. I have never seen any detailing forum that didn't have ties that was more pro klasse than pro Zaino, have you? Klasse has a wetter shine and if they had an instant cure I would use it more often, despite my minor pevs!



What ties?

Satisfied customers maybe?

There is no Klasse rep that I know of that push these products here at Autopian?

Also there are no Zaino rep's here that push these products either.



We do have very satisfied users of many products here which include not only Klasse and Zaino (me) but also Meguiar's, UPP, Poorboy's, Blackfire, Autogly, P21S, Pinnacle, Mother's, 3M, Einszett, etc, etc.



If a website gives us access to these fine products that we normally would not know about or find at places like AutoZone, Walmart, etc is considered a relationship. Well this is only positive not a negative. :cool:



Another unfounded statement? :nixweiss
 
The negative reactions to Burlyg's post probably have more to do with the inaccuracies in his claims rather than "ties" between websites and Klasse. Klasse is an excellent product, and it certainly does not "yellow" or have any of the other drawbacks of that nature. I'm not saying that other products aren't good, or even that other products aren't better, but Klasse is great stuff.
 
Burlyq said:
Lol, dude just cause the bottle says do three coats at a time doesn't mean you have to wait a day to start the next three! 4 hours the next three, 4 more the next and so on. I agree Klasse is a good product read closer. But it's inferior because the product itself contains paint contanimants (petroleum distilates), its old technology and it yellows. By gawd they dont even have a qd for when their product sticks. I can see why an old timer like you would have a soft spot in heart for Klasse though. If you want to attack something attack a product line and back it up because your out of my league. 1 yr in colision repair schools and 3 months in detailing school. Bring any car to me and pay my fee and I'll show you 12 coats in 24 hours it will dance. I always wait a day for finishing wax and qd. Zaino has a bad rep? I didn't get the memo, lmfao.



Maybe you should have spent more time in regular school so you could learn how to spell or use a d*mn paragraph.



Search the web for unbiased reviews? The majority of people here are not biased toward any product; they only look for the best products out there in terms of quality and ease of use, among other things.
 
Ties meaning they make money off klasse and they don't off Zaino. My claims are klasse is a pain in the - well rhymes with klasse. They have no detailer spray, it's not good for profesional use cause you have to wait a day to layer and most people will admit 1st coat of sg doesn't do it, they use PD's to help achieve that deep shine, and at least one of you stated there was a slight color issue.

I never said that klasse wasn't a good product, it's just not the class of the field when detailing for profit. For you weekend warriors it's a d*mn fine product.
 
Well, Autopia sells lots of products, including Klasse but also many others. There would be little reason for Autopia to promote Klasse ahead of those other products. Besides, DavidB has not made one single attempt to regulate discussion here to enhance the image of products he sells. In fact, he has made every reasonable attempt to facilitate critical and honest discussion about products.



The fact that Klasse doesn't manufacture a detail spray has zero to do with its value as a product. That, to be blunt, is a silly criticism. And, btw, there are many fine detail sprays out there that work great with Klasse and enhanced durability (like Sonus).



Zanio doesn't make a product to effectively clean the car before application. Does that make Zanio a bad product?



There isn't any "color" issue with Klasse. I don't even know what you are talking about here.
 
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