How can I get a SHARP shine on black?

K

KenSilver

New member
I studied this forum all ways and discovered questions that ask for the 'ultimate', the 'wettest', the 'most reflective' shine, and their answers.



But none seem to tell me how to get the 'sharpest' shine. By this, I mean a highly reflective, deep black on my grey-black Mercedes. A crisp black. One that cuts the air.



At best, using Meguair's 's #7 and Gold Class paste, I can get my SL500 looking better than most - probably in the top 5% - but sometimes a newer car will cruise by me with such a beautiful crisp shine that I'm ready to give up.



One of the views that best shows the effect I want is at:

http://www.mbcoupes.com/memberscars/T/satishtummala/cleansec1.htm



That car simply jumps out at you.



The problem with my Merc is that the paint is not a true black. While I call it a gray-black, the official color is green-black. But 'gray' describes the color better.



Because it is a lighter shade of black, I'm not going to get optimum reflection - I realise that. But I need to upscale the shine badly to wing it with the big boys on this forum! :)



And does putting wax over wax or multi-layers of polish really work? How much of the layering is actually redundant here? I ask because when I put extra coats of Gold Class on, I notice no difference in appearance at all. Surely I haven't reached the limit of shine!



By the way, I know my question has been answered many times in many ways on the forum. I've tried using the answers given by the top dogs here. But I always end up with no appreciably better result. My shine is maxed out at this level.



I need help!





Ken Silver

--------------

1993 Mercedes SL500, 1991 Daimler (Vanden Plas), 1992 Miata MX5 ... Finish detailing them, then start all over again...
 
I think what you're missing is the prep work going into your final topping. If you're only using #7 and gold class, and nothing to clean or polish the paint beforehand than you're definately at a disadvantage. I'm sure someone will come along and give you more detailed advice...
 
Ken-your first job will be to get the paint in as swirl/scratch/mar free shape as possible. After using a clay bar, I'd start with Meguiars Swirl Free Polish from their Body Shop Professional line (or the slightly less aggressive Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover from their Mirror Glaze line). Without seeing your paint, it is hard to say if you'd need to get more aggressive and use Meguiar Dual Action Cleaner/Polish (BSP line), but I'd try one of the swirl removers first. You will find that Meguiars #81 Hand Polish (BSP line again) is much easier to use than #7 and I also think it looks a touch wetter. Another option for your final glaze is Clearkote's Vanilla Moose or S100/P21S Gloss Enhancing Polish. Either will leave a sharp and reflective surface. If you want more reflections and you have metallic paint, S100/P21S Paste Wax would be a good choice. Clearkote's Carnauba Moose is also a good and very wet looking wax.



This is a 1998 Mercedes CL 500 that I more or less regularly detail. It's had everything from Meguiars #81/#26 to #81 and Pinnacle Souveran to S100 SEC and Paste wax to what I used in this current pic, which was Clearkote's Vanilla Moose and Carnauba Moose Wax. The paint is a metallic black so it looks black most of the time, but under certain light, it also looks a dark gray.



10991998_MercedesCL500_frontV2.jpg




10991998_MercedesCL500_rear.jpg
 
Steve,



Maybe you're right about prepping, but I don't know what I could do differently.



Here's the steps: After a thorough wash with Meguair's shampoo and 2 wool mitts (top and bottom), I used Meguair's Swirl Remover #9 - spent some time doing that mainly to reduce the swirls on the bonnet.



Then #7 Glaze, which says on the bottle "Pure Polish for a Deep Gloss Shine." So I assume that's the polish. It doesn't go down that well, is patchy, so I did a couple of coats.



Over that came the Gold Class, and I topped it with Mother's Showtime QD - don't like Meguair's QD as much.



Using cotton towels all round, etc.



Even when I repeated all this on a panel, altering speed, frequency and multi applications, the shine was no different to the panel next to it.



Sure would like to find the secret to a Sharp Shine!





Ken Silver

--------------

1993 Mercedes SL500, 1991 Daimler (Vanden Plas), 1992 Miata MX5 ... Finish detailing them, then start all over again...
 
Scottwax,



That's a great shine alright. Thanks for your overview and recommendations.



We can't get Clearkote or S100 down here at the bottom of the world. While I could go to all the trouble to order these from the US, I'm hoping to do the whole car in Meguair's which is locally available, and it's obviously better for the continuity aspect - no running out and waiting x weeks for delivery for replenishment.



So would you recommend staying with Meguair's? Is the difference that great at the polish and wax end of the detailing that I should not be using Meguair's?



Are you using a machine? I have one but am reluctant to use it because I can't find the right pads. So it's all by hand at the moment.



Nice touch - the mini-me star on the front bumper!



Ken Silver.
 
Ken-You can stick with the Meguiars line if you want, although I am sure you can get S100 if you really try (or maybe Swissol?). If you stay with Meguiars and want to continue to work by hand, I wouldn't get more aggressive than Swirl Free #82 or Swirl Remover #9. You need to use a folded terry cloth towel (folded into 1/8ths size to form a thick pad), work small sections at a time (refolding the towel to a clean spot each section) and rub the product into the paint until it looks nearly clear and dry-this is essential to fully break down the product. You can use foam hand pads with #7 or #81 Hand Polish. I'd suggest switching to Meguiars #26 High Tech Yellow Wax. Not only is it more durable than Gold Class, but it also looks better in my opinion.



I do all my work by hand, but one of these days, I'm going to get a Porter Cable.
 
When I first discovered autopia I was using gold class on my black trailblazer and someone told me to leave the gold class on for 1 hour before removing and I really liked the results. Just something you might try. But you can't go wrong with Scottwax because now I use just about everything he suggests. You might wanna try getting vanilla moose and carnuba moose and some Quik shine while your at it because this stuff rocks!
 
Ok, I read the link provided above. Looks fantastic, but I have a question about the procedure described...wouldn't the application of 3 coats of AIO remove the 2 coats of Gold Class wax that were applied before the AIO?
 
I was under the impression that gold class has cleaner properties - perhaps this is why you are not seeing a difference in shine - I don't believe that gold class is a "layerable" wax. As far as polishing, do you have access to menzerna polishes? I believe they are pretty well known around the world...don't know about down under though. As others have said, prep work is the key to your depth and reflection. The difference between ALL high-end waxes is so minute that you will only see what little difference there is with a perfectly polished finish.



Since you are looking for more of a "sharp" shine, as opposed to a deep wet one, and correct me if I'm wrong guys, I think it would be wiser to consider a synthetic product, as for me, synthetics have provided a more brilliant,crisp and "sharp" reflection on a black finish as opposed to carnauba waxes, which give the wet, warm look that I personally prefer tenfold over a synthetic shine.



-Tom
 
If you want to stick with Meguiars products wait till spring when Meguiars brings out their new product now known as Lab Sample D. In the mean time some people have good luck with #7, #20, #26 . This seems to be a great combo. Wait 1 day between #20 and#26.
 
An alternative to Meguiars range of polishes would be 3M. I would be amazed if you cannot buy this locally.



Dont overlook the importance of the rest of the car. Spotless wheels, tyres, glass, wheel arches etc all play an important part. And all of these require just as much effort as the paint does.
 
I would consider Toms approach of using a Synthetic like #20 or #26 instead of Gold Class if you want crisp reflections.



Gold Class provides a deep finish with clear reflection but it doesn't enhance gloss and provide those sharp reflections you're looking for.



The other polymer wax to consider is #26 as Scott has already mentioned. It provides nearly the same appearance as P21S/S100 with a slightly darker appearance.



Can you provide any pictures of your car to get a better idea of the paints condition?
 
Thanks guys, useful stuff! Now I'm starting to get a handle on the problem. I may ditch Gold Class in favor of your recommendations.



- Scottwax

Have Mother's clay in my detail cupboard already, so will use that first after the next wash. I'm using the same application method as you suggest with Swirl Remover but I've had about 50% of the car painted in the last month... there are no swirls on the new paint, so I guess this is an unneccesary step there. And I'll try Meguair's #26 to see the difference.



- Lowejackson

<<...Dont overlook the importance of the rest of the car...>>

True enough. Last week I took all wheels off and did a wash and scrub to wheel backs, arches and underbody, then finished the body with Meguair's Engine Kote. What a difference! And I use Mother's Chrome Polish for windows inside and out - it gives brilliant vision and shine that has actually drawn comments... and it's the first time in my cleaning life that anyone has remarked on how good the windows look!



- madazskunk

<<... leave the gold class on for 1 hour before removing...>>

Good point. Tried that a while back, and I agree it does make a difference.



- SuperBuick

<<... synthetics have provided a more brilliant,crisp and "sharp" reflection on a black finish as opposed to carnauba waxes, which give the wet, warm look that I personally prefer tenfold over a synthetic shine...>>

That's a very good description of the way my Merc shine looks now - "warm." Hoping synthetic will change the look to what I'm after.



- MBZ 500E

<<...Can you provide any pictures of your car...>>

I hadn't because I've found photos seem to improve the look of the car rather than show the problems. But I'll try and get some views today if the rain holds off.





To all, thanks again for all your input - it's finally making sense. I'm beginning to work out the materials that will work for my situation and I'm very grateful.





Ken Silver

--------------

1993 Mercedes SL500, 1991 Daimler (Vanden Plas), 1992 Miata MX5 ... Finish detailing them, then start all over again...
 
Scottwax said:
If you stay with Meguiars and want to continue to work by hand, I wouldn't get more aggressive than Swirl Free #82 or Swirl Remover #9. You need to use a folded terry cloth towel (folded into 1/8ths size to form a thick pad), work small sections at a time (refolding the towel to a clean spot each section) and rub the product into the paint until it looks nearly clear and dry-this is essential to fully break down the product.
Click to expand...



Hi Scott,

First of all, sorry to hijack this thread momentarily. I had a question on what you just said. I recently did my first "serious" attempt at detailing and protecting my 2001 Sentra (dark metallic red). Its a daily driver and the paint was really neglected (lots of swirls, etc.) on this ~2.5 year old car.



I washed with Mother's california gold, clayed the whole car with the mother's clay, then applied Meg's #9/#7/#26 all by hand, using a seperate foam hand pad applicator for each one, and buffed with 16x16 MF towels. For each of those three steps, I applied what I think was a "light" layer of each, doing the whole car, then buffing the whole car.



While the overall curb-side appeal turned out not bad, and the finish is nice and smooth, and beads water, etc. when I look up close I saw virtually ZERO improvement in swirl marks compared to before I did anything.



Is this because of my technique with #9? I'm wondering if its because I used a foam pad and not enough elbow grease? What is the reason to use a cotton terry towel, and how picky/selective do you have to be when buying them? Anything you can suggest for me to improve my results next time?



Thanks!!

(and I apologize again for the hijack)
 
KenSilver said:
I studied this forum all ways and discovered questions that ask for the 'ultimate', the 'wettest', the 'most reflective' shine, and their answers.



But none seem to tell me how to get the 'sharpest' shine. By this, I mean a highly reflective, deep black on my grey-black Mercedes. A crisp black. One that cuts the air.



At best, using Meguair's 's #7 and Gold Class paste, I can get my SL500 looking better than most - probably in the top 5% - but sometimes a newer car will cruise by me with such a beautiful crisp shine that I'm ready to give up.



One of the views that best shows the effect I want is at:

http://www.mbcoupes.com/memberscars/T/satishtummala/cleansec1.htm



That car simply jumps out at you.



The problem with my Merc is that the paint is not a true black. While I call it a gray-black, the official color is green-black. But 'gray' describes the color better.



Because it is a lighter shade of black, I'm not going to get optimum reflection - I realise that. But I need to upscale the shine badly to wing it with the big boys on this forum! :)



And does putting wax over wax or multi-layers of polish really work? How much of the layering is actually redundant here? I ask because when I put extra coats of Gold Class on, I notice no difference in appearance at all. Surely I haven't reached the limit of shine!



By the way, I know my question has been answered many times in many ways on the forum. I've tried using the answers given by the top dogs here. But I always end up with no appreciably better result. My shine is maxed out at this level.



I need help!





Ken Silver

--------------

1993 Mercedes SL500, 1991 Daimler (Vanden Plas), 1992 Miata MX5 ... Finish detailing them, then start all over again...
Click to expand...







Your Mercedes and my former '02 Maxima have one thing in common. Both were dark gray but would get confused with black or green (dependent on light).



But everyone else is correct in that the key to getting that perfect shine is in the surface preparation. Take a look at the following post to get an idea of what I did to said Maxima.

http://www.autopia.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10085
 
Here's a couple of shots of the SL I took this morning. While it doesn't really show the lack of shine clearly - the day is overcast and it was about to rain - maybe it's a help.





Ken Silver

--------------

1993 Mercedes SL500, 1991 Daimler (Vanden Plas), 1992 Miata MX5 ... Finish detailing them, then start all over again...
 
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