Help with unsatisfactory results

J

jono20

New member
I refinished the paint on a 2000 Chrysler Neon today. The car had been neglected, rarely (if ever) properly waxed, washed with what seems like steel wool, and generally not cared about.



My process was as follows, using a PC7424XP



Poorboys SSR2.5 -- LC Yellow 6.5"

Poorboys Pro Polish w/ Carnauba -- LC White 6.5"

Poorboys EX-P Sealant -- LC Black 6.5"



I fully worked all the products, and let the sealant cure for 45 minutes. No issues with application of removal, Poorboy's makes easy products!



I was warned that the LC yellow and PBs SSR2.5 would be a fairly harsh combo, but as far as I can tell I still needed more... or do I?



Is it common on older vehicles to come across swirl-like scratches that simply cannot be removed without wet sanding? There is no doubt that all off the fine brush marks, spider webs, fine/medium swirls, and scuffs were removed (you'd hope so after all the work I put in to it!) but when you look at closely in the sun you can still see what LOOK like heavy/deep swirl-patterned scratches in the paint. I can practically feel them with my fingernails.



It was a hundred dollar job, there is no doubt in my mind that they got their moneys worth, Im just curious if there is more I can do? I can't see going from SSR2.5 to SSR3 making that much of a difference. Is this just something you have to deal with on abused vehicles?



IMG_6334.JPG


IMG_6343.JPG


IMG_6349.JPG
 
It's tough to see what you are describing without a larger picture, but judging by the bottom two pics, they DEFINITELY got their $100 worth. Even for a small car like the Neon, to get a 3-step process for $100 is a deal.
 
Looks a lot better, can't tell what kind of swirl removal you achieved without lights or sun on the car though.



Honestly, I'd look into Meguiars #105 and #205 for your polishes. Better cut and finish than Poorboys.
 
I agree with Scottwax: get some Meg's M105/M205 and, from Accumulator's advice, some 4" pads and backing plate with your PC7424XP. Yes, it WILL take longer to polish out the Neon, but you can achieve better results.

By the way, I think the car looks excellent in the photos you've taken, for what it's worth.

Unfortunately, the smaller scratches and some of the random individual deep scratches (RIDS) don't "appear" in your photos, so I am assuming that when you see the car in person, it's appearance does not meet your expectations.
 
I agree that it looks like they got what they paid for.



One thing I question is how well EX-P "stuck" after having a Carnauba (Pro Polish) layer on the car. I'm no PBW product expert so maybe they have a system that works that way. Most sealants require squeaky clean panels with nothing on them.
 
Agree with M105/205 and 5.5" pads. SSR3 would likely work too, but it is a very gritty compound and will likely leave a bad haze in the paint requiring multiple polishing steps to follow.
 
Mindflux said:
I agree that it looks like they got what they paid for.



One thing I question is how well EX-P "stuck" after having a Carnauba (Pro Polish) layer on the car. I'm no PBW product expert so maybe they have a system that works that way. Most sealants require squeaky clean panels with nothing on them.
Click to expand...



I was also worried about this. I contacted Poorboy's and was assured that since both the PwC and the EX sealer use the same sort of carnauba-esque chemicals, there would be no issues with the sealant bonding.



I've ordered some orange 5.5 inch pads, hopefully that helps. And yeah it was overcast all day yesterday so it was difficult to take a photo of the damage I was seeing.



They could only be described as swirl marks, just very, very deep swirl marks.



When you guys do details for customers, not full paint refinishings, but simple, 100-200 dollar 2-3 stage polishes, do you often have defects remaining in the paint? I don't think I've ever done a car that had flawless paint when I finished. I did an Audi A4 turbo today with similar results, looked gorgeous after, but when closely examined there were still many, many scratches remaining in the paint from washing with a dirty brush. All of the fine and medium scratches were gone comf, but the heavy ones remained, and lots of them. I don't feelortable busting out a Makita rotary with a wool pad and M105, and wet sanding takes a long time, should I just settle with the results Im getting?



Im thinking maybe I should switch to SSR3 on an orange 5.5 pad instead of SSR2.5 on a yellow 6.5 pad for my multi-stage polishing jobs.



Any input would be appreciated. I'm having a hard time balancing doing a quality job, while at the same time not having it take 10 hours to complete, I don't get payed by the hour!



IMG_6354.JPG


IMG_6355.JPG


IMG_6356.JPG
 
Work out a pricing system.



The customer can't get everything for $100.00, you will go broke.

If they can not afford a full correction, they need to know what will be left out to cut the cost.

Then, if you have time after the order is complete, go back and do some courtesy work.

This way you will filter out the customers that you don't want to deal with anyway.

Plus your real customers get what they pay for, and they will be able to appreciate (and actually realize) all the extra work you did :)
 
wannafbody said:
4 inch pads can be faster than using 6.5 inch pads.
Click to expand...





I've heard that a few times, seems strange but it makes sense. I don't own a 3.5" backing plate, but I do have a 5", so I have a few orange 5.5" pads on the way from eShine.
 
I've also ordered a quart of M105, and a quart of Poorboy's Polish w/ Sealant. I think M105 will really speed up the cutting process on an orange 5.5 in pad, and using an AIO PwS to remove any hazing means I can be just a little bit less 'careful' when Im apply my final EX-P sealant, any small areas I may miss will likely be well sealed by the polish in step 2.





This is my current price structure:



$150 -- I ask to have car very clean when it arrives

I do a full pass over the vehicle with PwC or PwS on a white pad, and follow it up with EX-P sealant on a black pad. That's it! Takes 3 hours.



$190 -- Also ask to have car very clean when it arrives

Full pass with SSR2.5 on Yellow (will now be 105 on orange), Full pass with Poorboy's Pro Polish on White, and again, EX-P sealant on a black pad. 5hrs



$220 -- Same as the $190 package, but I will do a Dawn wash and full exterior detail (windows, plastics, wheels/tires etc). 6/7 hrs



$20 to add black hole glaze, $20 to add engine bay detail.
 
jono20 said:
When you guys do details for customers, not full paint refinishings, but simple, 100-200 dollar 2-3 stage polishes, do you often have defects remaining in the paint?
Click to expand...



I don't do 2 or 3 polishing steps at that price. People get the level of correction they are willing to pay for. Those wanting to pay in the $150-250 range for details (based on vehicle size) typically aren't concerned with paint correction but rather a clean interior and protected paint. That is one DA polishing step and a wax or sealant. You need to bump your prices up if you are doing 2-3 steps.
 
Scottwax said:
I don't do 2 or 3 polishing steps at that price. People get the level of correction they are willing to pay for. Those wanting to pay in the $150-250 range for details (based on vehicle size) typically aren't concerned with paint correction but rather a clean interior and protected paint. That is one DA polishing step and a wax or sealant. You need to bump your prices up if you are doing 2-3 steps.
Click to expand...



Keep in mind that I primarily detail exteriors, it's a rare day that I bust out a vacuum. Paint correction and protection is the name of my game... Damn I should put that on a business card!
 
LOL that sounds funny, and yes you should raise your prices!! i just a one step, included wash, clay, one step machine, wax, interior vacuum, dressing and glass for $250 and i thought that was cheap. but it was a referral from a friend and might lead to some good referrals so i said screw it and did it.
 
interiors can be fun sometimes. i wish i could do all correction work but in the end work is work. I would bump up your prices but beware to have your pricing on par with what your market allows for.



It might be a case for you where you have to do a little more work for a little less money.



That's how i kind of feel anyway.
 
yeah exactly, I only do this on my weekends, and in the end if I make enough money to pay off the products and equipment, and have enough left over to grab a couple pitchers with the guys, I'm satisfied.
 
Hey bro, by cheap prices, you are painting yourself into a cheap market(picture). Bump your prices and get into a diff market. But you have to know what market is around you. Ohh and by the way cars looks nice and i feel you about the scratches when you see them at closer look+ light! been there. and to get into a expensive scene, practice, practice and practice. Do not leave your business cards that drive unfinished. (cars that u did-who ever didnt got it)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top