Blackfire / Platinum bonding over glaze?

S

schoi

New member
That's my question. Can BF / Platinum really bond to a glazed surface?



I have #7 + P21S on the 'Vette right now and love it. I'd think it'd be pretty cool to go with #7, Blackfire (or Plat), and topped with P21S.



Also: Does Blackfire really look like a carnauba / "sort of" like one? And how's Platinum?
 
In my opinion, Platinum is certainly closer to #26 than Klasse SG or #20. I haven't tried Z or some of the other polymers, and for waxes, I have only used Mother's and #26.



I have not tried Platinum over #7, but may do so as an experiment soon. I haven't used my #7 in a long time because I find that it can be difficult to get streak free sometimes.
 
Polaris- I've had so many smearing issues with BFII (yes, I know others don't, but anyhow...) that I sure wouldn't try it over the #7. I THINK the PUPP would be a safer, but, but I still think it might me problematic. All those oils in the #7, you know? I used #7 on black for a long time (back in the '70's!) and yes, it DOES look special, but I'm not sure you can have that and your sealant too.



Yes, BFII is quite "carnauba-like" in appearance. In my experience, this diminishes somewhat after the oils disipate (taking the smearing with them) but it's still a special look for a synthetic. If you don't get the smearing, you'll probably love it. If you do, I dunno, especially on black. As to HOW carnauba-like it is, I can't say. Different carnaubas can look so different..but BFII does NOT look like Klasse, Z, or something like that.



You seem to be doing some good research before trying something new on the 'vette :up
 
Polaris, I have the same question. I wish someone could give us the facts if a polymer and wax can be layered without "bonding" problems. I know have Zaino, Klasse, Platinum, Blitz wax and soon S100 and Final Polish. If I can mix these waxes with polymers I could have some fun without worrying if the wax is sticking or not.
 
joed1228 said:
Polaris, I have the same question. I wish someone could give us the facts if a polymer and wax can be layered without "bonding" problems. I know have Zaino, Klasse, Platinum, Blitz wax and soon S100 and Final Polish. If I can mix these waxes with polymers I could have some fun without worrying if the wax is sticking or not.
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While I am not totally sure, I think this has been covered several times in the past.

As I remember it, waxes can go over synthetics, no problem.

As a general rule, synthetics do not bond to waxes. In other words, don't try to put a synthetic on top of a wax.



Once you top your synthetic with a wax, you will need to strip that wax before you add more of your synthetic.



#7 is loaded with oils and fillers. Doesn't seem like a good start for a sealant.



Also, Platinum does have very close to a carnauba look.



Charles:wavey
 
Yeah, just thinking about trying something new.



I dunno. I mean, I haven't used #7 for... well, forever. Something like almost a year. Just recently I decided to go with that so I wouldn't have to do any abrasive polishing to get rid of a couple of swirls and because I remember how great it looked on the 'Bring. Sure enough, it looked great on the Corvette. Topped with P21S, = :bow :xyxthumbs :D



I was asking the bonding question because elsewhere on the forum, I read something about a certain polymer - BF or Platinum, I forget which - being used over a glaze/polish and bonding.
 
Whats the bonding issue all about? I mean is it a question of longevity? Or is it a question of the sealant streaking like mad? Getting some Klasse SG and Platinum and will do some experimenting as soon as I get it.
 
millikan said:
Getting some Klasse SG and Platinum and will do some experimenting as soon as I get it.
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SG and Platinum are both sealants so your experiment won't have much to do with bonding issues with waxes and sealants.



Charles
 
CharlesW -



Yes, I have read that many times. I was just hoping we could have someone give us hard core facts why we cannot re-layer a polymer onto a wax.



Are we saying it does not bond because it is an oil based product? Is that the furthest we take this thought? I do now know the answer myself ............ wish someone with chemical knowledge could prove it to settle this once and for all. It's just one of those things I want to know.
 
Generally, I would hesitate to use a synthetic sealant over a glaze. Oils in glazes prohibit oxygen from crosslinking with the paint. But I've noticed with Blackfire, that the product itself is greasy ¡V so greasy and "high tech" that I wonder if it even bonds (a la Zaino). CMA¡Â¦s recommendation to use their own oily polish prior to their sealant seems contrary to our old, "low-tech" detailing minds...



:rolleyes: :confused:



I'm thinking that Blackfire is something enitrely new and different, that shouldn't be used or thought as Klasse or Zaino. Maybe it works like a long lasting carnauba and doesn't need to bond... I don't know, it's just so SAAB quirky!
 
I was doing the XJS's satin black window frames and decided to experiment (not smart as the paint's really wearing off them already:o, but anyhow..).



I used VM and let it dry/cure an additional 24 hours after buffing. I then applied BFII. It did NOT seem to fully bond. It was sorta greasy looking- a REALLY dramatic example of the "BFII smearing"- much worse than usual. I buffed it some more, but it didn't really look decent until I topped it with P21S. Note that wax toppers seem to absorb the excess BFII oils and eliminate the smearing.



SO, at this point I'd say the BFII does NOT bond well to waxes and/or some glazes, or at least not to VM.
 
this is from cma "bf2 will not bond to anything with any kind of oils in it like a glaze, but it will bond to an acrylic(klasse aio)" Believe me, i tried it before(with mothers sealer and glaze), it lasted maybe a few car washes. Really doesn't look as good as klasse aio and bf2 does.
 
Accumulator



You've got to buy some Platinum after you run out of BlackFire and test it out. From what people say, the shine of Platinum is as nice as BlackFire or even a little better, it doesn't smear and it last's a little longer.
 
joed1228- Yeah, I know. Nick T. convinced me (some time ago)that PUPP is currently the best for what many of us are after, and I believe I helped convince X-MAN to get it. I oughta take my own advice and get a bottle, but the BFII's gonna last me a LOOONG time (I only use it on the S8, which I seldom drive). We'll see, I bet I get some PUPP before too long. I do, after all, ACCUMULATE stuff :D
 
ACCUMULATE eh? I am trying to buy one QD and give away the other 3. Buy one dash dressing and get rid of the other 2, same thing with the tire/rim cleaners. It's getting out of hand. I have a cabinet full of stuff I use once and never touch because I want to try other stuff and compare.



Platinum, Klasse, Zaino and soon NYD Final Polish. I think I used my Blitz wax twice. I also have Meguiars Gold Glass wax, Meguiars Glaze, Meguiars High Tech Yellow wax and 3 of everything else.



I need to make space.
 
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